Kate Nash RFÉ 2 September 2017

Radio Free Éireann
WBAI 99.5FM Pacifica Radio
New York City

Martin Galvin speaks to Kate Nash via telephone from Doire about the sit-in protest occupying the Museum of Free Derry (MOFD). (begins time stamp ~ 37:41)

Martin:  And with us on the line we have Kate Nash. Kate, welcome back to Radio Free Éireann.

Kate:  Thank you very much, Martin.

Martin:  Kate, some time ago, just a short time ago, we had you on and you were talking then about just some of the discontent that you and some of the families had about – families of victims of British forces – about the Free Derry Museum. And you said that at time you did not want the names of family members listed among the names of British troops, among the names of members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), British forces. I know that that happened in Glasnevin Cemetery in Dublin where the names of Irish patriots were listed and there was a lot of bad feelings about that. How can you put them on the same pedestal, on the same places, if the names of those who were victims or those who died fighting for freedom would be the same and remembered equally with those who were trying to deny that freedom or to take innocent life? And we were hoping that that protest would be resolved. I know you had a petition. I signed it; a number of people signed it. And you were trying to work to get this done. But this week I heard that there was a dramatic new escalation – there’s actually an occupation of the Free Derry Museum. Could you tell us what’s going on and why?

Kate:   Yes. Yes, my sister and my good friend, Helen Deery, who lost a brother to the Army of course on the nineteenth of June 1972 – just look – we were on the phone quite often asking and we were just told the same thing: Look, call back next, they were call back next week or give us a ring and just excuses, excuses all the time. And they said they we were doing a consultation. The petition we did do did force them into that – doing a consultation. And they sent out a two page form for families to fill in who wanted it up and who wanted it down. And my family actually filled it out then. And eight of the families actually wanted it down and four of them were happy enough with it. So we sent it back in, you know, this is how they work anyway – Sinn Féin, the majority – that’s what they seem to talk about over there – but however, this went on and on and there was no sign, they said that, they kept kept telling us that people hadn’t really sent the form back and you know they were waiting to see – and that’s what we were listening to the whole time, Martin, we were – and that’s was a couple of months – and this has been going on that long, a couple of months. And so eventually we thought, we took a decision last Sunday that we’d had enough of it. And the girls know, the girls know – we decided that I would stay outside and organise and the girls would go in and occupy the building. And that’s exactly what they did last Tuesday at one forty.

Artist: Carlos Latuff

And they haven’t been treated very nicely, I can tell you, by the Bloody Sunday Trust. They’ve had no, they’d no access, they have had no access to facilities, for instance, until last night. They turned off the lift. One of the girls would have a walking problem, you know, she’s on disability, Helen, and they turned off the lift. They brought various people in, and I witnessed one of them, one of those people, they brought various people in and allowed them to hurl abuse at the two girls, the two ladies. And all the staff are refusing to speak to them despite being, despite only being only a couple of feet away.

And they released a statement last night without even speaking to them. They talked about mediation. They wanted to offer mediation but said at the same time: We won’t move an inch. And Helen actually answered that and said: Well, in that case we’re not moving an inch, either. Obviously, they’re not serious about trying to resolve this problem. And look, we’re simply asking them: Please take my brother’s name out of there. Helen wants her brother’s name out of there.


Daniel Hegarty

There’s another family, the Hegarty Family, young Daniel Hegarty, fifteen, was shot on (Operation) Motorman and they want their brother’s out of there. While we were there yesterday, for instance, there was a man came in, too, demanding artifacts that he had donated to the museum. He demanded those back. He said in support of the occupation done by the two women. He completely supported them. So that’s where we’re at…

Martin:  …Alright…

Kate:  …that’s really where we’re at…

Martin:  …I mean, both of them are pensioners…

Kate:  …Yes, they are…

Martin:  …Helen Deery’s fifteen year old brother, Manus, was shot. Your brother, Linda’s brother, nineteen year old William, was shot on Bloody Sunday…

Kate:  ..Uh huh, that’s right. Yes.

Martin:  …and they’re there in overnight bags, sleeping bags…

Kate: 

Occupy MOFD
#TakeItDown

…Yes, well it was actually, they’ve got blow-up beds now so they’re just a wee bit more comfortable. What they did say, the museum people, did say then yesterday as they have agreed – just suddenly they changed tact then yesterday and they have agreed to give them water. They recognise, they said, the protest and they would allow me in with their medications and stuff that they use you know, via me, but do you know what? They’re actually making faces – you know, trying to goad them, you know? And one of the younger members of staff – once a visitor, by the way, who had brought them in a couple of bags of sweets – sprayed them with air freshener! I mean, choking them! Do you know what I mean? He sprayed that much, a nineteen year old that works in there. And that’s the sort of treatment – you know that’s the sort of treatment! That’s where we’re at. I think that I’m (inaudible) at the moment. But I mean we intend to, and the two ladies intend, to stay in there until they take those names down.

Martin: Okay. Well I’m just reading a very emotional statement by Helen Deery who is one of the people inside. She said:


Manus Deery
Photo: The Derry Journal

We’re occupying the Museum of Free Derry. We’re not coming out until that display is down. We’ve tried every other form of protest to have them take our loved ones’ names down. I’ve told them on numerous occasions of the hurt and anxiety that this is causing me and other family members. I’m staying here until they take this down. I have eight pins in my legs, a spinal injury and I’m sore this morning but I’m adamant that I’m not leaving. I am Manus’ voice now. His next of kin. I want to keep his name sacred. He was just a child.

And, of course, Linda…

Kate:  …Helen made that – it’s very emotional but a very powerful statement, yes.

Martin:  Okay. Just tell our audience again: What is the Museum of Free Derry? What is it supposed to represent?

Kate:


Linda Nash & Helen Deery inside MOFD

Well, according to them, according to them it’s a museum it’s now representing from 1969 to 1972 the civil rights – or the Free Derry, the Free Derry time and basically that’s it. You know I mean on the charity status, for instance, the Bloody Sunday Trust, they say that they exist to assist the Bloody Sunday families, you know, and to keep the memory of you know Bloody Sunday with respect. You know, so.

Martin:  Alright. But now here is the list of names, names of British troops, names of Royal Ulster Constabulary and mixed in with that is Helen Deery’s brother…

Kate:  …Can I explain, Martin, to you about that? They say that those names – that is simply a list – a chronological list. But anybody looking at that display – for instance, where they don’t have a photograph there’s a cross – there you are -that’s a sacred thing. That’s a memorial. There’s also a short biography of each person down below. On one of the soldiers, for instance, it actually says that his wife was pregnant at the time and that she went on to have the baby. So there you are – they’re humanising that. Do you know what I mean? So that is a memorial. That is not a list.

Martin:  Well what concerns me, two things: Number One, as a family member of William Nash, as a family member of Manus Deery, certainly you should have the right to say how your family or how you react to it and that it’s hurtful and gets heard. But beyond that when the names of British forces were put up, the ones killed in 1916, were put along side the names of people like James Connolly and Pádraig Pearse and the other patriots of that time – all Republicans made a statement about how angry they were that the names of patriots are not equal or should not be among, should not be remembered along side as if they were the same as, no different than, those who were trying to deny freedom who would execute the men of 1916, they would jail people and now it seems like the same thing is happening in Free Derry Museum.

Kate:  Yeah. Well that’s the British government via Sinn Féin. I mean, what we’re facing now, what we’re challenging is The Establishment – and that’s the British government. And this is what their psychological thing is – they actually try and get us to, to attempt to get us, to be used to think that soldiers are okay and so on and that’s what that is attempting to do. But I have to say, too, Sinn Féin and their workers, what they’re, what they, if they meet certain criteria, for instance ‘inclusive’ – then they will get funding. And it’s about that, too. It’s about greed.

Martin:  Alright, funding from whom?

Kate:   Well, the government. They get funding from the government. The council – they actually get money from the council as well. I believe there’s one part of it’s a charity and then the museum is a business.

Martin:  Right. They charge an admission, they make money, people get paid wages…

Kate:  …Oh, yes. Four pound a head…

Martin:  …and they get money from the British government. Now I think what…

Kate:  …That’s right. Yeah. They got funding to build that, you know to build that – I think they got over two million, didn’t they?

Martin:   Alright. I think one of the proposals that you and the other people who have the protest have made is for mediation and I think, correct me if I’m wrong, that you had or someone had suggested that Bernadette Devlin-McAliskey would be acceptable…

Kate:  …Absolutely, yes, we did. But it was dismissed.

Martin:  Well nobody played a bigger part in that whole period, 1968 to 1972, than Bernadette Devlin-McAliskey…

Kate:  Absolutely! Well she’s not mentioned. I haven’t seen, you know when I’ve been in there with the girls, I haven’t seen anything about Bernadette Devlin in there. And strange – I haven’t seen anything about John Hume either, you know – quite odd.

Martin:  Well how would you tell about that period in history? She was a leading political figure…

Kate:  …Yeah, and leave them out…

Martin:  …she was – she was the person elected to Parliament from that area…

Kate:  …that’s right, yeah…

Martin:  …who attacked a British official who tried to apologise or defend Bloody Sunday. She was involved with so many civil rights marches that are involved in that period. She would have been involved in Bloody Sunday very much. How do you leave her out?

Kate:  She was there – she was actually there on Bloody Sunday.

Martin:  Right. Wasn’t she due to be one of the speakers?

Kate:  I suppose actually, yeah. They had to jump down from the stage, you remember! They had to jump down from the stage when the bullets started.

Martin:   Alright. Why wouldn’t she, for example – if you have a mediator they don’t impose a settlement they’re just supposed to bring people together. She’s somebody that’s been heard on this programme on these airwaves many times. Why would Bernadette Devlin-McAliskey not be acceptable? It doesn’t have to be the sole mediator but as one of the mediators to try and resolve an (inaudible) situation?

Kate:  …Well I’ll tell you what – I mean we’re going to pursue that you know and ask if, you know formally ask – you know it’s just been, unofficially, it’s just been discussed in there, do know what I mean?

Bernadette McAliskey
Photo: Belfast Telegraph

But I don’t think they want her. I don’t think they want Bernadette. But I mean we’re going to sort of ask officially: Could Bernadette mediate? We trust that lady – I mean of course we do.

Martin:   Okay. Is there anything else that can be done to get a resolution? I know there was a petition. I was one of the signatories, it was up…

Kate:  Well actually that was an online one. We actually did one on the street here in Doire. We actually polled the people in the Bogside and got them to sign one. And every single door we went to in that entire Bogside signed it.


Supporters outside Occupy MOFD

We took in a thousand names to them, you know? And it was only weeks later when, weeks later they said – they dismissed it at the time – but it was only weeks later then they said: Look, because of that, because of that petition, we will do a wider consultation. And then a month later they come back to us and says: We’re only going to do the families. Now we did ask, too, does mean that you’re going to contact soldiers’ families and RUC families and stuff? Absolutely not. They’re not going to contact them. But herein lies the deeper problem. They consult nobody. I mean people are just treated with total disrespect and no caring whatsoever in it. Total disrespect.

Martin:  You’re dealing, you’re dealing with people who lost loved ones, who feel very strongly about it, whose loved ones were killed by British troops, who – they’ve been there for a number of days. How do they – they stay in overnight, they sleep in either sleeping bags or just the accommodations that you’ve said. How do they get food?

Kate:  Well I tell you what – determination. Because what – how they get through that is because what’s happening to them is hurtful and I mean it’s so hurtful that determination drives them. And you know what? You just find strength. You find strength from that determination. You know so…

Martin:  …Alright…

Kate:  …it means so much, Martin, it means so much that that doesn’t happen. We cannot let that equivalent stand between soldiers and innocent people. We simply can’t let that display go.

Martin:  Okay, Kate, is there anything…

Kate:   …We have to do something about it.

Martin:  And we’re taking to Kate Nash whose brother was one of the people killed on Bloody Sunday and whose sister is Linda, is one of the people inside occupying the Free Derry Museum. Is there anything in particular that people in the United States can do?

Kate:  Well do you know what? I think it would be terribly helpful – support’s always a wonderful thing – I think it would be terribly helpful if they were to, say, email for instance, the Museum of Free Derry and show their support for what we’re trying to do – or show you know, just tell them they do something or talk to the families and do what makes them happy – what they can, you know what they can – what they want – what they want, really.

Martin:  Okay. Kate, could I suggest: Next week, we just had Gerry McGeough on, there’s a weekend of events in Tyrone.

Kate:  Yeah, I heard about that, yeah.

Martin:  I’m sure he would give you some kind of facility. They’re going to have hunger strikers families honoured. It’s a Hibernian Day parade. I know they would be very sympathetic to victims of, relatives of victims who were killed by British troops. If this is still going on – if you can’t get a proposal, a mediation, something that satisfies everybody and allows Linda, your sister Linda Nash, and Helen Deery to come out of that building, and I heard there are other families talking about joining – I’d suggest you have somebody there at that event. I’m sure Gerry McGeough and the others would be interested in what’s going on and interested in supporting you and that is going to be a big weekend next week. I can’t speak for him but just knowing Gerry I’m sure he would give you that facility.

Kate:   Oh, that’s great. Thank you very much.

Martin:   Okay. We’ve been talking to Kate Nash. Kate, we wish Linda and Helen and you all our best. And the names of your family members, those victims, innocent victims, should not be there along side British troopers. And we’re going to give you – we hope there’s not a big update next week to have to follow through on and that this can be resolved in some way that satisfies you and the other family members.

Kate:  Thank you very much, Martin. We really appreciate your support and all your listeners. Thank you very much. (ends time stamp ~54:37)

Update 4 September 2017:

Second Update 4 September 2017:

Third Update 4 September 2017:  The Agreement

Relatives Sit in Protest
at the Museum of Free Derry (MOFD)
(Monday, Sept. 4th 2017)

Relatives Statement

Having submitted a number of proposals to the Bloody Sunday Trust earlier today (detailed below), which were broadly excepted by the Trust, we the two relatives involved with the sit in at the Museum of Free Derry decided to suspend our protest in order to facilitate a process of dialogue. For their part we also wish to acknowledge that the Bloody Sunday Trust, in the interim, agreed to remove the exhibit, which is at the centre of the controversy.

We consider both gestures to have been made in good faith and in a spirit of creating positive conditions for dialogue. Consequently both parties have agreed to use the coming days to nominate a mediator with a view to starting into a process of dialogue from next Monday, September 11th.
Signed
Helen Deery
Signed
Linda Nash

Relatives Proposals

1. Both parties agree to secure a mediator, on a fair an equitable basis.
2. The MOFD agree to suspend the exhibit, without prejudice for an agreed time bound period of four weeks to enable dialogue to take place.
3. The two protesting relatives agree to vacate the MOFA for an agreed time bound period of four weeks to enable dialogue to take place.
4. Both parties agree not to engage in any public exchanges on the issues involved and this includes the use of social media.
5. Prior to commencement of mediated dialogue and based on securing agreement to the above proposals both parties release an agreed public statement.

Kate Nash RFÉ 10 June 2017

Radio Free Éireann
WBAI 99.5FM Pacifica Radio
New York City
listen on the internet: wbai.org Saturdays Noon EST

John McDonagh and Martin Gavin speak to Kate Nash of the Bloody Sunday March for Justice via telephone from Doire about the Free Derry Museum’s decision to put up the names of those members of the Crown Forces killed in Doire during the ‘Free Derry’ era of The Troubles. (begins time stamp ~ 21:05)

Martin:   Okay, we’re back. Back in Doire with Kate Nash. Kate, it was great to see you at the commemoration or the mural unveiling, the formal unveiling, for George McBrearty and I know at that time you were very concerned about what was happening in Free Derry Museum. I couldn’t believe – I know we were angry when this happened in Dublin with the names of Irish patriots then but that this should happen in Doire is unbelievable. John is on the line. John is going to open up the questioning on this.

Kate:  Okay. Thank you, Martin.

John:  Yeah, the one great things now about technology is you get to see what’s going on in Doire and all throughout Ireland almost instantaneously and then I saw on Facebook that I’m friends with Kate Nash that she had discovered that the names of British soldiers and RUC (Royal Ulster Constabulary) men were up in the Free Derry Museum.

Artwork by Brian Mór. Donated to Free Derry Museum by Tim Myles.

So I know that Brian Mór had artwork hanging up there, I went and seen it twice at least myself when I was over in Doire, and I talked to people at the National Irish Freedom Committee and Brian Mór’s partner, Joan Messina, and I said: You know what? Bernie would not like this having his artwork displayed with the names of British soldiers who were actually shooting down the people to prevent ‘Free Derry’. So if you go to my Facebook – I put up the statement at Cabtivist dot com – or just Cabtivist on Facebook and it says:

Brian Mor O’Baoighill was deeply honored when his artwork was donated and displayed in The Museum of Free Derry. He would be horrified to learn that the Museum now includes a display honoring the RUC and British Soldiers who died during that same time period – giving them equal status to the innocent civilians who were murdered at their hands. While the concept of truth and reconciliation may have it’s place, the basic premise calls for honesty. A list to honor all people who died during the time period is neither honest nor honorable. Accordingly, the partner and friends of Brian Mor O’Baoighill who facilitated the donation of his artwork are requesting that until the list is removed, his artwork will be removed from the exhibit, and given to Kate Nash for safe keeping.

And I’d like to say: We sent this over, we called up Kate, she said send me the statement and I’ll head right over to the museum. And maybe, Kate, you can pick it up from there. Or, how did you find out and what is the feeling of the people in Doire that the names of the British soldiers who tried to prevent ‘Free Derry’ are in the exhibit?

Kate:  Well there’s a great deal of anger as you would imagine. Doire still feels the pain – it’s an open wound what happened here on Bloody Sunday. But of course, we’ve lost lots of other innocent people here – children among them. Friends of mine, who are still fighting – fighting to even have inquests. So of course there’s a great deal – well of anger really and I think puzzlement, too, at what the hell this museum is at. But I do think probably, I’m hoping anyway, but I do think that you giving me that letter to actually take to the museum I’m hoping will have a great deal of influence on what they’re actually doing or at least give them time to ponder. You know, I mean this is – it’s very hurtful. And it’s needless pain that’s inflicted on innocent people.

Martin:   Kate, this is Martin Galvin. Could you tell us or explain what the Free Derry Museum is and who made this decision? I believe it’s due to open next week but who made this decision to put the names of British troops, of the RUC – names which are so hurtful to you and others – who are victims of people who have never been brought before the courts for killing innocent Irish people in Doire?

Kate:   Well I could say straight out: just Sinn Féin. I couldn’t tell you who, particularly, but I do know Sinn Féin are in charge. This is a museum they run and the fact of the matter is any decisions made about it they would make. Now I was told there’s preconditions if you get funding. Now I know they got funding with the renovation of that museum. But however there’s preconditions and obviously they have agreed to some things and that would be it about soldiers and RUC being put up as well as UDR (Ulster Defence Regiment) being put up there alongside victims of the state. I couldn’t give you the actual person but the Bloody Sunday Trust runs this museum and I know the Bloody Sunday Trust would be Sinn Féin.

Martin:   Alright. And I know that in addition to the demand that you made for the return of Brian Mór O’Baoghill’s artwork there are other families who have asked that their different artifacts – clothing that they wore when they were killed – that other families have gone with you and protested and demanded that their items…(crosstalk; inaudible)

Kate:   …Yes. There were some families there with me. I don’t, I really don’t try to influence them; it’s not something I put out widely to tell let people know that’s happening, you know, because I kind of just let people make up their own mind. But definitely there were some families, I think six or seven, represented as well as wounded. And there was a lady there, and you know I’d rather not say her name over the airwaves, but there was a lady there and yes – she was saying if they didn’t remove that display that they would want, the family would want, her brother’s clothing taken back. (You know the clothing still has the bullet wounds – he wore that suit on Bloody Sunday so it means a terrible lot to that family.) But she was extremely hurt. Very, very emotional – you know, very, very upset – shaking – her whole body shaking – and crying when she was talking to the chairman of the Bloody Sunday Trust and very, very upset. But there you go. So far their decision, as they said they will be keeping it in place until after the official opening, which I suspect will be the fifteenth of June – because they do that, too – they try to memorialise the Cameron apology that happened on the fifteenth of June, so I’m not expecting them – well they said they won’t be doing anything until after the official opening and then they will ‘consult widely’ is what I read, you know? But to personally to talk to me or any other family – I’m not sure of that, you know? I’m not sure of that. They haven’t talked to me.

Martin:   Alright. John, you have a question?

John:    Yeah. You know what, Kate? The irony of all this is it shows they consulted with no one. There was an article in the Belfast Telegraph of a widow of an RUC man who wants her husband’s name taken out of the exhibit. So I mean not even the widow of an RUC man wants to be in the museum. Now can anyone even envision that an RUC museum, or the Ulster Defence Regiment Museum or a British soldier museum in Belfast or anywhere in the Six Counties anywhere would have the names of IRA Volunteers in that museum? This is the madness that’s going on with the Free State and with Sinn Féin saying: Oh! We have to put up these names, they’re all (crosstalk;inaudible)

Kate:   …Absolutely. Schizophrenic – the things that happen here – schizophrenic!

Martin:   Okay. So Kate, you’re going to have a meeting with them but this is not going to happen until after the museum opens, is that correct? I mean once people come in, the public starts to see it, how does it make any sense to have the consultation then instead of beforehand when you can do something to take down these names, to stop giving offence, before the museum opens?

Kate:   Well I have to clarify that: They haven’t said they’re going to talk to me and I would be very surprised if they did, to be honest. They may have tried to talk to some other members of my family and I would say I think the ones I was talking to just recently are not very happy with it, you know? I haven’t been able to talk to all of my family but the ones I’ve been talking to are not happy with it. Other than that I don’t think they will be talking to me. I’m not one of the people they would consult with, I’m afraid. Although I would have a perfect right, of course, to do so. He was my brother. He was my brother, too, and I should have a say in what goes on, you know? In fact, in saying that, Martin, we do not have anything personal in that museum. We simply have a photograph and it’s one photograph – it’s the only photograph we actually own of our brother because nobody in those days – nobody had cameras, they were expensive little things and nobody had them. So we only had one photograph of our brother – that’s the photograph they have. (We have copies. We all have copies.) Other than a statement of my father, a statement of my father’s which is public – it’s in the public sector, so it doesn’t matter, you know? We have nothing personal like other families have actual objects and clothing and things like that. I would certainly, if I had anything like that, I would want it out of there as I’m sure if they had something belonging to a police officer or a soldier or anything like that you can be sure it would be out pretty quick.

Martin:   Okay.

Kate:   I don’t believe they’ve consulted with anybody and you see therein lies the problem. They just don’t ask people – they just go ahead – same as they do with the Bobby Sands’ family – they just use their stuff and it doesn’t matter how the family feels or how the family are hurt. Thus is the way they behave.

Martin:   Okay. Now Kate, I did want to ask you: The last time you were on we were talking – there were no charges against troopers for Bloody Sunday for the people who were killed – fourteen people including your brother – and we’re at the point where we were very near to that decision being made. Now the DUP is – we’re going to cover this with Eamon Sweeney – but the Democratic Unionists Party – they are going to be involved very much – they supposed to be kingmakers for Theresa May as a result of the British general election.

Kate:   Yes.

Martin:   And one of the things that they have spoken about or they are expected to ask is for a statue of limitations so that the British troops who were never prosecuted will now never be prosecuted. What’s your reaction…

Kate:   …Yes, that’s very high on their priority list.

Martin:   Alright. Is there anything…

Kate:   …Well of course I would be…

Martin:   Go ahead.

Kate:   Sorry, I can’t hear.

Martin:   Sorry, go ahead, Kate.

Kate:   I would expect – I’m not exactly sure what you said there, Martin. I didn’t hear too well.

Martin:    Alright. What is your feeling about that – the idea that there would be a statute of limitations at the behest of the DUP, with the British government, proclaimed for the North of Ireland, so that British troopers who killed Irish people under circumstances which were unjustified and unjustifiable, which amounted to murder or manslaughter, where they, who would be shielded from the courts, would never have to face a court after all the campaigning that you and the Bloody Sunday families – after all the campaigning by other families for inquests, for truth, for justice for their family members who were killed?

Kate:   I would be absolutely devastated, Martin. I’m not sure, I’m not sure I could recover from something like that be honest. I have worked very hard, as everybody knows, to get prosecutions, to get justice for my brother and I simply couldn’t recover if somebody told me I wasn’t able to do it. I mean that would not – that’s a police state you’re talking about – that is not a democracy. The law must work. I know we’ve waited forty-five years but the law must work. A crime was committed here on Bloody Sunday – innocent people, lots of innocent people shot, fourteen died – many hundreds were brutalised, arrested and brutalised, by the same troops – there has to be justice for all of us. There has to be.

Martin:   Alright. And Kate, one of the things that we spoke about at the George McBrearty…by the way, Jim Sullivan is here and wants to say hello.

Jim:   Hi, Kate. It’s Jim Sullivan. It’s nice to hear your voice again.

Kate:    Hello, Jim. How are you?

Jim:   I’m pretty good. How are you feeling?

Kate:    I’m very well, thank you.

Martin:   Alright. One of the things that we spoke about at the George McBrearty commemoration was the idea why isn’t – why haven’t any of these troopers been charged with perjury? Judge Saville, after listening to their testimony, basically said that their testimony was obviously untrue – which would amount to perjury – it would contradict what they said at the initial – when a commanding officer now, when an officer named Mike Jackson took statements that make no sense, that were totally, physically impossible about the original shot (inaudible) – why is it that, at the very least, none of those British troops have been prosecuted for perjury, that they lied under oath, and not be brought before a court for that and use that to leverage them, to make them flip, to get information about who actually gave the orders – what was going on at the time that these people were killed on Bloody Sunday?

Kate:   Well apparently, and Michael Bridge as you know has great – he’s one of the wounded – Michael has great detail on that and that has been an on-going problem for him. He’s brought it up at every single police meeting with the families and he brought it up recently, too, with the Public Prosecution Service – just nobody’s been listening to him. Michael has pushed and pushed and pushed for this for years – years – and finally at the last meeting they did say that they’re going to be reviewing that. Look, what happened there was simply this: The PSNI (Police Service of Northern Ireland) made a deal with the Metropolitan Police to not do anything about perjury and to make it about the bigger crime – murder. So that’s really what happened there but it is now, it is now being – we think they’re going to deal with it so I don’t know how long this is going to take. I really don’t know. They said they would give us a time frame at the end of the summer.

Daniel Hegarty

Now it could be – there’s a family right now who waited four years to get a decision and Barra McGrory then refused. He said the soldier was just (the soldier doesn’t even say this by the way) but Barra McGrory said it, the Public Prosecutor, that the soldier thought he was defending himself – this was against a little fifteen year old who was the size of a twelve year old but they are now challenging that in the High Court on the sixteenth of this month.

Martin:   Alright. And we’ll have to leave it there. Kate, good luck with fighting Free Derry Museum.

Kate:   Thank you very much, Martin, for having me on.

Martin:   Oh, it’s always a pleasure. We want to thank you again and hopefully something can be done before that Free Derry Museum opens up so that British troops and members of the RUC responsible for victimising and murdering and brutalisation and oppression are not there alongside the names of those they victimised. Alright, thank you, Kate.

Kate:   Thank you very much, Martin. (ends time stamp ~ 36:27)

31 August 2017 Update:

Read the article here.