Kate Nash RFÉ 14 November 2015

Radio Free Éireann
WBAI 99.5FM Pacifica Radio
New York City
listen on the internet: wbai.org Saturdays Noon EST

Sandy Boyer (SB) and Martin Galvin (MG) interview Kate Nash (KN) via telephone from Doire about the recent arrest of a British Army soldier accused of multiple murders committed on 30 January 1972 in Doire – the day known worldwide as Bloody Sunday. (begin time stamp ~ 32:00)

SB: And we’re now talking to Kate Nash, whose brother, Willie, was murdered on Bloody Sunday – her father, Alex, was very gravely wounded. Kate, thanks so much for being with us.

KN: You’re very welcome, Sandy. Thank you for inviting me.

SB: And Kate, before we get to the very serious political issues here I want to talk a minute just on a personal level: What does it feel like to you after all these years that someone has finally been charged with your brother’s murder?

KN : Well, I got a call a few days before that (inaudible) court delays in questioning soldiers and that they would resume as soon as it was practical – that was the Friday before and then Tuesday I had another call to say that they had arrested a soldier in connection with the murder of my brother, William, Michael McDaid, John Young and the attempted murder of my father, Alexander Nash. I was absolutely astonished. I couldn’t believe it.

SB: Do you feel any satisfaction that after all these years someone has finally been charged?

KN: I think the word would be relief. He’s not actually been charged, Sandy. They kept him for thirty hours and they let him out on bail pending further inquiries.

SB: Yeah, I do want to get to that but for a minute I’d like to just talk about the impact of this on your family because you told me that your father, Alex, felt guilty all his life because he was shot when he went to save his son.

KN: He was shot twice…he was shot twice. My father always felt that he should have died – he should have died. He just felt so guilty that he had survived that day. Of course, we didn’t feel – we love our father so we were glad he had survived that day – you know – an absolute miracle that he wasn’t. He actually went out to help my brother in a hail of bullets, according to eyewitness accounts. So he was a good father.

SB: And it kind of ruined his life.

KN: Well, yes. He suffered very badly for years up until his death; he died of cancer actually in 1999. But he suffered very badly with post-traumatic stress disorder – it was terrible. I mean he didn’t have it all the time but certain things started it off – you know? And it was horrible to watch – it was very painful for him because he went into that day all over again or he went into the fact that there was paratroopers coming out of helicopters and always worried about our safety. Even when he was ill in hospital he always wanted us to leave the hospital you know – to prove to him that we could get out – we weren’t there sort of arrested or something like that. You know, he was afraid for us and always sort of felt that paratroopers were there or around, you now? And that’s the way his life went.

SB: And so Kate now, finally, someone was at least arrested but do you really think that you’re finally going to get justice in this case?

KN: There’s more than a glimmer of hope, yes.

SB: But as you know, as you started to tell us – and we don’t even know the name of this former Lance Corporal.

KN: He’s known as ‘Soldier J’, that’s right. And actually there’s seven more soldiers, that we found out, have actually challenged in the high court in London – they put in an emergency judicial review against the PSNI (Police Service of Northern Ireland) arresting them believing this to be politically motivated – welcome to our world – that’s what I say to that. But they also want twenty-four hours notice of arrest so that they can present themselves to a police station. The PSNI have responded to this and they have said that they will be treated like any other suspect.

SB: Well, we’ll wait and see about that. But this individual has been released on what they call ‘police bail’. Now it’s a little better than – it’s even less than: If you are picked up for jaywalking in New York they give you what they call a desk appearance ticket. When you get a desk appearance ticket they give you a court date – he doesn’t even have a court date.

KN: No, nothing like that – nothing like that. Although the police have told me that there will be more eminent arrests. What I could say about this, Sandy, and I don’t know if you’re seeing it online, but we’re hearing that there’s going…the Para Regiment at their HQ are actually protesting this. And they’ve actually issued a statement of support for these Bloody Sunday soldiers offering welfare assistance for them and their families if needed. And there’s an online petition for the British government demanding pardons for these soldiers and a protest march for later this month in London is also being planned for the same reason. Apparently this petition they have online has twenty thousand signatures actually demanding that these soldiers get pardons. And could I further say, Sandy, at the Bloody Sunday Inquiry the terms of references were that these soldiers had immunity from prosecution. The only requirement for them was that they tell the truth. And the Bloody Sunday Inquiry concluded that this particular soldier, Soldier J, and many others of course, fired without fear or panic and only lied. These soldiers have already been given an opportunity to walk away from this and all they had to do was tell the truth – and they didn’t do it.

MG: Kate, this is Martin Galvin – I’m in the studio also.

KN : Hello, Martin.

MG: How you doing, Kate? You said that this case was, that the PSNI were saying it was like any other arrest. I remember, for example, some time ago Ivor Bell was arrested on an incident that happened in 1972. He was taken before a court and initially he was held before a judge would set bail, his name was publicised, formal charges were preferred, he was given a court date to return. How did what happen to this British trooper compare to that?

KN: Well, there’s no comparison. There’s absolutely no comparison. As far as I know to date Ivor Bell – and that is still pending – I mean that still hangs over his head even though I don’t believe there’s any evidence even in that case. Apparently others have been told that there will be no further – nothing pending on them. But apparently this still hangs over Ivor Bell. So this soldier – now this soldier was just questioned – I don’t know even if he gave any answers but this soldier was just questioned for thirty hours and then let go on police bail.

MG: So there’s no charge of either or murder or perjury – there’s no court date, he may never have to go back to court, his name is unknown – nothing like that that would happen with any Republican.

KN: No, absolutely! No comparison whatsoever, Martin, no comparison.

SB: So there’s very good reason to think though that this man might never come to trial and certainly might never be convicted.

KN: This has been delayed. This police investigation has been going on now for three years and of course suspects – always the police – if they have suspects – then they would question them first. Now obviously they’ve questioned something like a thousand civilian witnesses and there’s nothing else they can do but question these soldiers. I believe the delay – they have done everything they can to delay this – and do you know what, Sandy? I don’t know why this is happening now. I don’t know why. I’m just…I do see it as a positive move. And like I said there’s a glimmer of hope. I just hope and pray that these soldiers will finally be brought to trial and face a court of justice. And whatever punishment is deemed we’ll accept that. Whatever a judge considers as punishment – we’ll accept that – but we need to bring them to trial.

SB: Kate, I hate to be cynical about this…

KN: …Yes, I know. I’m very cynical myself. I’m very, very cynical myself, Sandy.

SB: You always wonder if, when something like this happens, if they might just be trying to prop up the peace process?

KN: It could be. It could be – absolutely! There could be many reasons why they’ve decided to do this now. I mean five days before they actually told me – they actually said they hadn’t questioned any soldiers for whatever delays they were having. And then suddenly they had a soldier? They had arrested a soldier? So I don’t know. I am very cynical, Sandy, obviously. We’ve waited almost forty-four years for justice. But I just live in hope. I just live in hope because it would give the families such peace of mind if this could finally be ended.

SB: Now, Kate, just to take the best possible interpretation of this: All they’ve done is charged a Lance Corporal in this. They haven’t charged anybody who gave him the orders to go in. For instance, there’s a Major General, Sir Robert Ford, who ordered that the Paratroopers be sent into Doire after they had massacred people in Ballymurphy in Belfast – so he knew when he ordered them in what he was doing. Any prospect that he would be charged?

KN: Well, as you know – the Bloody Sunday Inquiry concluded that this was all down to nine rogue soldiers – “bad apples” they called them – and one lowly officer. Do you know what? I’ve almost forgotten his name – I know he lives in France somewhere on the border of Belgium…

MG: …(Lieutenant Colonel) Derek Wilford?

KN: …and there’s no chance that’s he’s been – he hasn’t been brought in for questioning – not yet. I don’t expect General Ford because apparently he doesn’t have – they reckon these soldiers just disobeyed orders.

SB: But right on the ground – they like to call him Mick Jackson – Sir Michael Jackson, please!

KN: That’s right. He lied.

SB: The Chief of General Staff, yes.

KN: General Jackson was the man who actually took this to every embassy around the world and lied and said that the Bloody Sunday victims were bombers – gunmen and bombers.

SB: But this is the guy who went on to become the Chief of the General Staff of the British Army.

KN: He rose through the ranks and in fact would be the spokesman for the Army.

SB: And he commanded them going into Iraq.

KN: That’s right. In fact, he was actually brought back a second time to the Bloody Sunday Inquiry because of telling lies again.

SB: I mean, we’ve talked to Eamonn McCann about this, he’s written several books on it, and Eamonn believes – he can’t prove it – that this had to come up through the Cabinet – that – and very likely that Maggie Thatcher even knew about it.

KN: Actually, Edward Heath was the Prime Minister of the day and yes, there’s a lot of stuff there – that you might – we do believe: Yes, that it was ordered from the government, yes – it goes all the way up. But of course, they sacrificed nine “bad apples” and one lowly officer.

MG: Kate, just before that, originally the Bloody Sunday soldiers had been whitewashed – there was a whitewash by Widgery and one of the aspects of that whitewash seemed to be that after the incident the troopers were brought together – they were told to get together or they had assistance in preparing a version that they would all put forward to justify what had happened.

KN: That’s right. Yeah.

MG: There were British troopers involved with that in conducting this whitewash and getting that story together.

KN: That is right. Yeah.

MG: Didn’t Mike Jackson play a prominent role in doing that?

KN: He was the man who (inaudible) stuff like that and that was found out very quickly to be not true, you know.

MG: They have an offence in most countries, they call it subornation of perjury – wouldn’t that shot list come very close to making out that charge?

KN: Well absolutely, of course. But these soldiers – they simply weren’t – they never went up the ranks – they just didn’t go up the ranks – that’s the British government protecting their own.

MG: Alright, but you had – the British government – there was a Widgery Inquiry, there was a formal whitewash, they were said to try and vindicate them and put forward the notion that a British judge had said that they were totally innocent – that they were justified in the firing – that went on and on for years.

KN: Yes. Indeed it did. Yes.

MG: Okay, you still, you – your sister, are key people in organising the protests that still continue on Bloody Sunday…

KN: …Yes. The Bloody Sunday March, yeah.

MG: Is that going to continue? And how important do you think those protests continuing are in getting you to this day where somebody’s actual been questioned?

KN: It’s very important – of course it’s very important that’s why we picked it up, Martin, five years ago when the Sinn Féin actually dropped it. You know they didn’t want the march to go on after the thirty-ninth. Of course, at that stage we were very suspicious and my sister and I decided that we were going to do a little protest ourselves. I mean – we never thought – we just turned the corner – when they were going on to the Guild Hall we turned the corner into Rossville Street where the murders happened and delighted – delighted to say – and I never expected it – but thousands of people followed us. We knew we could continue on with that commemoration march every year.

MG: Alright. Now that continues. Do you think that that commemoration and the thousands of people – I’ve attended it on several occasions – the thousands of people that keep attending it, keep putting pressure on the British government, keep calling what they did murder – do you think that that is important in driving forward the process so that British troopers are not only questioned and released but that they actually end up in a court room on charges of either manslaughter, murder or perjury?

KN: It’s very, very important that that march continues. It’s important because the British government – they know that we have people – and people come from all around the world, Martin, to attend that march. And it’s very important that we have that support and thank God for it! But I believe that that is the telling factor – that is what’s making them – and our own protests that we do when we think something needs to be highlighted throughout the year. Yes, absolutely! All that support – support from people around the world – absolutely we believe that’s what’s pushed it this far – that is what’s got us to where we are now.

We’ve actually have stepped-up this campaign over the last few years. I don’t believe it was – because it was a campaign that was kinda organised by Sinn Féin and it was taken over by Sinn Féin from the families originally and I don’t believe it was a proper campaign in the sense that they were actually looking for justice for the families of Bloody Sunday. I think it was just something that they wanted to control and I do too believe there was collusion between them and the British government – I mean, nothing I can prove but however – I do believe it.

SB: Well Kate, this week, right after this individual was arrested Sinn Féin in Doire came out with a big statement that was in The Derry Journal, the local paper, saying how they were supporting the families and implying that this was a great victory for the peace process. How did that make you feel?

KN: Well – supporting the families – we actually asked to meet recently with all the political parties and Sinn Féin – I actually had an email from Gerry Adams, a man I’ve never met, telling me about a meeting. And I wrote back to him to saying: Well, just say when and where. And that hasn’t happened yet. So I don’t think Sinn Féin’s really, truly supporting the families. I do think they have to say that for their followers out there, people who vote for them, because it wouldn’t look too good if they didn’t support it – if they were seen not to be supporting families from the massacre – I mean this was a huge massacre in Doire and this still affects the citizens of this town even today.

SB: But Kate, before we let you go – first of all thank you very much for coming on but what do you think? Where does it go from here? Are you hopeful? Or do you think the odds are against justice ever being done?

KN: I’m hopeful. I’m hopeful. Sandy, and I would ask all your listeners, all the Irish-Americans, all the Americans that listen to your show I would ask them: Please, get your Senators and Congressmen – please let them know that these families are waiting for justice for almost forty-four years. And this is a burden we would like to lay down. We need justice. We need justice and if they could please contact their government – people they vote for – and let them know how important this is to the Irish people and to these families.

SB: Well Kate, again, I want to thank you for coming on. I want to just tell you something: You have my number. If anything happens, whether it makes the papers or not, call me – we’ll get you on. And I don’t have to tell you – sometimes the most important things that happen never make the papers. So, this is Radio Free Éireann. We’re not impartial between Bloody Sunday families and the British government. We don’t make any pretense of that. So please, we’re here to support you. Whenever anything happens get in touch and we’ve got to keep covering this.

KN: I will happily do that, Sandy. Thank you very much for having me and thank you very much for highlighting the Bloody Sunday massacre. (ends time stamp ~ 52:02)

Mandy Duffy RFÉ 15 August 2015

Radio Free Éireann
WBAI 99.5FM Pacifica Radio
New York City
listen on the internet: wbai.org Saturdays Noon EST

John McDonagh (JM) and Sandy Boyer (SB) interview Mandy Duffy (MD) via telephone from Belfast about the annual anti-internment march held in Belfast on Sunday, 9 August 2015.  (begins time stamp ~5:28)

JM: But right now we head over to Belfast and we speak with Mandy Duffy – she’s with the Irish Republican Prisoners Welfare Association (IRPWA) and she was at the march. I don’t know if it was much of a march – it started off as a march – it certainly did end with that with the amount of police security that was there to stop them from going into the city. Mandy, what exactly happened? Now I heard you on The Stephen Nolan Show during the week and the debate seemed to be over the times: What time were you starting – what time were you finishing. But it really didn’t seem to matter what time you were starting or finishing – you were not going to get into the city centre where there had been many rallies – there had been gay rights marriage, there’s been union organising down there but it seems Republicans still can’t get into the city centre.

MD: Yeah well, on the event on Sunday basically the Anti-Internment League had applied for the march to the Parades Commission and the Parades Commission came back with a – well, it was basically impossible to meet the determination that they gave because the march was due to start at half two and they had said we had to be clear of Royal Avenue by half one which was impossible to meet. So, if we had’ve brought the march forward like they had wanted us to do we would have been clashing with the Ballymurphy Massacre March. And there’s so many people in attendance at that march that wanted to come to the anti-internment march so it would have been so wrong of us to have an impact on their march so we agreed that we would start – the Anti-Internment League agreed that it would start at the time that we had put in for at half two because a lot of work goes into this parade. You know, this is an annual parade, it’s every year on or around the anniversary of internment. The purpose of the parade is to recognise the anniversary of internment but also to highlight the internment-by-remand that’s taking place in The Six Counties and also the other injustices that’s happening in the prisons. So we just felt that it would be wrong of us to clash with the Ballymurphy Massacre so therefore it was agreed that we would start at the same time as we had already advertised. We had buses coming in from all different areas, we had bands traveling from Scotland – we had so many plans put in place that really to move the march would have had a massive impact. So therefore, we were left with no other choice only to start at half two.

JM: And what about the route of the march? I mean, we see week after week there’s huge demonstrations: there’s flag demonstrations – God forbid if a Tricolour goes up somewhere or they’re taking down a Union Jack – that a lot of groups are allowed to demonstrate, protest and march through Belfast city centre. This specifically said you couldn’t do it and the way they blocked it – there was no way you were getting into the city centre.

MD: Well, this is one march a year that Republicans ask for to go through the city centre. And listen, it isn’t about getting into the city centre. The reason why the city centre route – it’s basically the only route that will take us through to West Belfast without walking into contentious areas. Now, Republicans as a rule do not march in contentious areas. We wouldn’t do it. We just wouldn’t do it. It would be zero-tolerance policy for us to impose our views, our Republicanism, onto a Protestant/Loyalist/Unionist community. Now, the Parades Commission had suggested that we avoid the city centre and go through the Loyalist Brown Square Peter’s Hill area but we just thought that was unfair. We don’t want Loyalists feet in our area so we certainly wouldn’t be putting Republican feet into Loyalist/Protestant/Unionist areas. So, the city centre was the only shared space – it’s a shared space – you know, we’ve told that often and often again – it’s not about being a Loyalist area – it’s not Republican area/Nationalist area – it’s a shared space so that was our rationale for going through the city centre, you know? But unfortunately, we weren’t able to go through at the time that we were needing to go so we were unable to get through – we were blocked.

SB: Hi, Mandy. This is Sandy Boyer. Now, when – this may not be accurate but I can only rely on what the media says and we all know it’s not necessarily true – but they were saying: Oh, we’re afraid that if you get into the city centre there might be violence. Now the way I read it: This parade was attacked last year by Loyalists. In other words – you can’t parade because someone else might attack you.

MD: Yes, there was a number of Loyalist protests last year at the very fact that Republicans are marching through the city centre. Last year the march was accommodated through the city centre and it was attacked by Loyalists. In the previous year we didn’t even get to the city centre even though the determination hadn’t blocked us at that stage – but the fact that the Loyalists went mad – they went mad in the city centre – so we were held back for a couple of hours and it was getting quite dark and people were tired – you know, people had traveled a long distance – had to travel a long way back. So we actually accommodated by not walking through the city centre and just made our way on down to The Busy Bee. So we have bent over backwards in recent years to accommodate. In fact, the march this year was scheduled to be on a Saturday but we felt that was a busy day – a busy shopping day – so it would be better to have it on the actual anniversary of internment – have it on the Sunday which is seen as not as busy a day for the trade – so we would have little or no impact on the trade in the city centre. But unfortunately, we didn’t get very far. We got about five hundred metres I’d say and then we had a large – a very, very large-scale policing operation and to say it was over the top is – you couldn’t exaggerate how heavy the policing operation was put in place to prevent us from getting through the city centre – it was ridiculous.

JM: And Mandy, we’ve been doing this show long enough to see the evolving British policy on how the Republican message gets out. During the ’80’s and early ’90’s we would have prisoners who, when they got out of jail, and in particularly blanketmen, they were sent over to the United States, they did radio shows and when that was prevented we were able to interview them over in Ireland. Now the British, not wanting to get that message out, have set such stringent bail conditions – particularly with someone, say like Marian Price, who was a regular guest on this show – but part of her bail condition was she could not talk to the media. Maybe you could talk from a personal point of view: How is it getting the message out and what are some of the bail restrictions that you know of – that why you’re living in Belfast?

MD: Well, the bail – Marian’s conditions were off her licence – her release – when she was released that time and wasn’t able to do media. I know Martin Corey wasn’t able to do media either. They also have censored Dee Fennell who would be a very active Republican and very to the fore on prisoner issues and in fact, was a spokesperson for the Anti-Internment League. And they censored Dee Fennell as part of his bail conditions in that he’s not allowed to speak publicly or media or even to post on social network or anything as such like that. So the Anti-Internment League, I know that they then felt if you were to put somebody else forward that basically you’re giving into the Brits and their bail conditions. So I was asked to do the media because I am a part of the prisoners’ group and therefore the media – the march was about the prisoners’ issues – so therefore I was quite happy to do the media. Bail conditions in The North are getting exceedingly worse as you alluded to there. I myself: My husband’s out on bail and his bail condition are ridiculous in the extreme and it’s ludicrous. He’s not allowed home, he’s not allowed to live at home with his family – you know, our young children, his grandchildren. He’s forced to live in Belfast. He can’t even visit the family home. He’s not allowed even to visit Lurgan. He’s not allowed in Lurgan. He’s not allowed in the car. It’s really is ridiculous. It puts an awful strain on the family but at least he’s not in Maghaberry so that’s something to be thankful for!

JM: Well now when you say: ‘not in Maghaberry’, that’s the prison now where Republicans are being held. Can you give us an update on what the conditions are like and why he’s very grateful he’s not there?

MD: Well obviously, I’m sure people are aware that the conditions are abysmal; they’re not great. There has been a long, long campaign led by Republican prisoners against certain issues: There’s controlled movement, which is basically whereby you are restricted in your movement in that you have to be accompanied by screws basically every step you take, every journey you make, be it from your cell to the canteen, they lock grilles down – it gives prisoners no freedom of movement whatsoever within their own wing. They also have forced strip-searches whereby a prisoner is degradingly strip-searched – obviously Republicans would never accept strip searches so they refuse – so then they are forced to be strip-searched.

They also have the ever-increasing issue of Republicans held in isolation. We currently have a prisoner, Gavin Coyle, who has spent his entire sentence in complete isolation on the CSU and his human rights are beyond attacked. This man has spent one thousand five hundred days in complete isolation with one hour into the yard, one phone call and one visit a week. And we actually do believe that there’s going to be a hardening up from Maghaberry and in fact, the facilitators/assessment team that were put in place to see the smooth introduction of the agreement (five years ago this week there was an agreement that we thought, and the prisoners believed, was going to do away with all these areas of concerns) but obviously that didn’t happen and they have told the prisoners there last week there’s going to be a hardening-up of their position in which we’ll see more Republican prisoners held in isolation – instead of an easing of the situation – there’s going to be more.

Now, on the day after the anti-internment march that failed – we didn’t get through the town – we had two Republican prisoners from Roe 4 – Nathan Hastings, twenty-two and Conal Corbett, eighteen, were asked – there was an incident the night before and they were put on a charge for calling the Governor a clown. You know, so they were put on a charge because of the incident from the night before – and the next day they were told that they were going to be moved from their cell to other cells. Now, Nathan’s been in the cell for two years and young Conal was quite happy in his cell, too and said: No, we’re fine – you don’t need to move us on the Republican wing. We’re alright where we are. And they were told: No, you’re being moved.

So they expected that the riot squad would come in and move them. So I got a phone from Nathan and he said: Look – Listen, we’re being forcibly moved from our cells and I said: What do you mean they’re moving you from your cells? What’s the problem with the cell you’re in? And he said: No problem. They’re just trying to disrupt. They’re trying to control; it’s a further controlled movement policy. So that was – we expected the riot squad to go in. We knew that they would wait until after lock-up and that was just what they did.

Once the prisoners were locked up at half seven later on that evening in comes the riot squad – now when I say the riot squad I’m saying these are the notorious, hated riot squad. They have inflicted so many injuries on prisoners on the Republican wing you’ve lost count. They came in and first off trailed Nathan – took Nathan out of his call, put him in handcuffs and trailed him to the CSU – the boards as we would call it – trailed him over to the CSU and then came back for young Conal, who’s only eighteen. And they beat Conal to the ground, trailed him out of his cell and threw him into the empty the cell that they wanted him to go into initially and Conal was then forced to lie for hours on the ground because there was no bed – no bedding – and this is just further abuse by Maghaberry and the riot squad and inflicting their rules – what they want – and that’s it. They want to control that wing and that’s what they’re doing.

SB: And Mandy, going back to the march against internment Martin McGuinness had something to say about it after you got attacked by the police he blamed you!

MD: Yeah. Martin McGuinness blamed the Anti-Internment League for bringing people out onto the street. Now, I personally believe that that is an absolute insulting statement from Martin McGuinness. Beacause if you were to apply that rationale: Martin McGuinness says blame the organisers for bringing these people out onto the street – and if you apply that rationale to Doire and the civil rights march and where thirteen men were shot dead then that would be Martin McGuinness saying that the civil rights movement was the cause of these mens’ death. And it hasn’t went down well believe you me in Republican circles. But thankfully, don’t pay much attention to what Martin McGuinness has to say these days. But I do know one thing: And I would like to actually challenge Martin McGuinness, here and now, to share a platform with IRPWA. Let’s have a debate. Let’s have an open, public and frank debate on the prisoners’ issues – on internment-by-remand, on what’s happening in the jails. He’s quite willing to share a platform with George Hamilton last week at St. Mary’s…

JM: …And he’s the head of the PSNI.

MD: He’s the head of the PSNI. We actually had a protest outside that – it was a fantastic protest – a very loud, vibrant protest and we never – we quite often have protests obviously on the prison issues. We had that one on the fact that he was meeting him and that George Hamilton was made to feel so welcomed by Sinn Féin on the Falls Road. So we had so much support. We had black taxis tooting their horns – shouting support. We had ordinary members of the public – tooting their horns – shouting support. At one stage coming near the end of our protest we decided to go in to St. Mary’s – the car park. Now, it was all barricaded – we couldn’t have gotten anywhere near the PSNI/RUC or the Shinners. But our intention was never to disrupt the meeting. That was very clear. We were never going to disrupt the meeting because we were conscious that there was family members there, obviously, who wanted to attend the debate – family members who had lost their loved ones in the conflict. So, but we did go into the car park. And as we approached into the car park the RUC jumped out of the Land Rovers and got their batons and their dogs and came for us. At the same time so did Sinn Féin. So what we had was a line – a massive number of protesters in the car park – a barricade – then we had the PSNI/RUC standing talking to Sinn Féin members deciding what to do with us – discussing how they were going to approach Republicans protesting on the Falls Road! And I’m going to tell you now: It was a sorry sight – it was a sorry sight! It just showed me how much the tables have turned and that these Sinn Féin members are now with the enemy, colluding with the enemy, against Republicans.

JM: And Mandy, to let our audience know, Martin McGuinness is the Deputy Dawg First Minister of The Six Counties and just to say that you were responsible for being beaten – I was over there at the internment march when Séan Downes was shot dead because the Republican Movement brought over Martin Galvin to have him speak there. And the Brits at the time said that it was Martin Galvin’s fault, it was Sinn Féin’s fault for organising this when they were the ones that came in with the plastic bullets and the batons and hammered people right there. So now you have Martin McGuinness, on the front lines you could say, condemning Republicans now organising, marching and having – you can’t even get the people you want to speak at these rallies, as you were bringing up. Dee Fennell used to come on the show. Now part of his bail conditions: He can’t do any media. So I mean the noose is tightening but it’s being tightened by the Republican puppets on behalf of the British government.

MD: It’s certainly being supported by them. You know, we don’t have – Republicans – our prisoners’ support group – we don’t have very many opportunities to highlight what’s happening in the jails because we certainly don’t have politicians standing up and shouting out about what’s happening. We’ve had Sinn Féin in meeting with the prisoners. And you know, it’s very ironic and very rich that we have Sinn Féin members in sitting meeting with prisoners. And these Sinn Féin members actually shared cells with these same prisoners in the H-Blocks and actually sat and discussed strategy – you know: Where we go, how we move forward – with these same prisoners. And now are coming in to meet as muppets in the government. And can they not see how ironic it is that they know that they actually discussed and sat down with these same prisoners – been comrades with these same prisoners – and now they’re in government and they’re doing nothing for these prisoners!

JM: Well Mandy, any final words? Because I know you’re heading off now to another rally or a meeting…

MD: …Yes, we have – there’s a march here in Lurgan tonight – it’s been billed as a anti-internment march. We had such a big massive weekend of events last week in Belfast that Lurgan didn’t have the opportunity. I have also have put out a call for all areas to highlight the brutality of young Conal and Nathan so I obviously have taken this opportunity to highlight the brutality so I’ll be just heading here shortly for that so, but I really appreciate the airtime and you getting in touch and allowing me to highlight what’s going on in Maghaberry and, of course, talk about the Anti-Internment March.

JM: Well listen Mandy, thanks for coming on and giving us the latest update. But it’s not a good sign. A lot of people that we’ve had on the airs end up at some stage been banned from the airs so we wish you all the best.

MD: Not a problem. Thank you so much. (ends time stamp ~25:09)